A new mass grave has been discovered at al-Shifa Hospital where a two-week siege by the Israeli army has turned the facility into a graveyard and put what was once Gaza’s largest medical complex out of service.

  • Emmie@lemm.ee
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    3 months ago

    So… when will the western world and media wake up? And call it for what it is?

    Because the only thing more gross than that is to stand back and pretend it isn’t happening

    • xor@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      3 months ago

      That’s not actually a viable solution though, in the same way as “deleting Germany” wasn’t a viable resolution to the second world war.

      Their citizens won’t just magically disappear, forcibly displacing them would constitute a war crime, and transferring ownership of the entire region to a Palestinian state is just setting up the dominoes for civil war and extending the instability and suffering in the region.

      • hark@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        Deleting Nazi Germany was absolutely a viable solution. Israel as a state not existing doesn’t mean the citizens go away, it means that as an institution it doesn’t exist, which means getting rid of the apartheid regime, the land grabs, the ethnic cleansing, the genocide, etc.

        The country should not be based on a racial or ethnic identity, it should be a more fair system accounting for the diversity that is there, like it was back when it was known as Palestine.

        • xor@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          3 months ago

          apartheid regime, the land grabs, the ethnic cleansing, the genocide

          All of the above are consequences of Israeli colonialism/imperialism, not a direct consequence of its existence as a state.

          The German example is odd, because not only did Germany not cease to exist, but in fact the exact opposite of what you’re proposing was done. That equivalent would be if a victim of Nazi Germany - say, Belgium - annexed Germany in its entirety.

          There isn’t a one-state solution that creates an environment where both Palestinian and Israelis can live peacefully, because Israeli citizens are unwilling to live under a Palestinian state, and Palestinians are (of course) unwilling to live under an Israeli state.

          • hark@lemmy.world
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            3 months ago

            Israel’s founding principles are all those terrible things and the state was formed around them, just like how Nazi Germany was formed on fascism, racism, genocide, land grabs, etc. Nazi Germany is not the same as the Germany we know today or the Germany which existed before Nazi Germany. You’re tying the people to the state even though the state can change without forcing everyone out of it.

            There was a one-state solution where Muslims, Jews, and Christians lived peacefully and that was Palestine long before the formation of Israel. Of course, there are always agitators who push for discrimination to grab power, but peace is a never-ending struggle that requires vigilance. If we can denazify Germany, we can deisraelize Palestine.

            • xor@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              3 months ago

              Nazi Germany is not, but it is still Germany nonetheless. Your proposal is equivalent to the elimination of the concept of Germany in its entirety.

              Basing your solution on a state that last existed in 1516 is an awful approach, and ignores the Israeli people’s right to self determination.

              Additionally, the number of people who identify as Israeli significantly outnumbers the number of those who identify as Palestinian, so your one state solution still involves a state in which Palestinians continue to be a minority in a nation where Israelis have political control.

              And you haven’t even begin to consider how you’d actually make it happen - are you expecting netanyahu to volunteer to join Palestine, or are you proposing a full fledged invasion of Israel, a regional military superpower?

              Really, this is one of those situations where an idea is so bad, that it’s not viable to list all the reasons why it’s a bad idea

              • bartolomeo@suppo.fi
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                3 months ago

                Basing your solution on a state that last existed in 1516 is an awful approach, and ignores the Israeli people’s right to self determination.

                Yea, the whole “Make Judea Great Again” idea holds no water, yet here we are.

          • DoomBot5@lemmy.world
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            3 months ago

            because Israeli citizens are unwilling to live under a Palestinian state

            That’s because we saw what happened to all the Jews living in other middle eastern countries. Hint: all expelled or killed

            and Palestinians are (of course) unwilling to live under an Israeli state.

            Plenty do. You just only hear about the ones causing terror or violence.

            • orrk@lemmy.world
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              3 months ago

              plenty of jews are fine living in a Palestinian state, you just don’t hear about them because they aren’t the “right” kind of jew, It wasn’t the Palestinians that segregated out dark skinned jews, nor ran sterilization campaigns for Ethiopian jews

      • Keeponstalin@lemmy.worldOP
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        3 months ago

        I think they are referring to Israel existing as an apartheid state. In its place, a state with Equal Rights for all Israelis and Palestinians in historic Palestine.

        More forced dispossession won’t solve the conflict or bring any justice; which is now the problem with any Two-State Solution due to the hundreds of thousands of settlers in East Jerusalem and the West Bank. The Occupied Palestinian Territories are hundreds of enclaves divided by Israeli settlements, military bases, and checkpoints. To many New Historians like Avi Shlaim and Ilan Pappe, settler colonialism has made a Two-State Solution with Palestinian Sovereignty not viable due to the facts on-the-ground, with a Binational One-state as an inevitable outcome.

        How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution

        ‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe

        One State Solution, Foreign Affairs

        • xor@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          3 months ago

          I believe I understand what they’re proposing, as the same as your interpretation.

          But my point is that whichever way you cut it, it’s really not a viable solution in practice. It’s lovely to imagine a country where Palestinians and Israelis live together in peace and harmony. But in practice, there’s no form of such a state that is an acceptable outcome for either side in the short or even medium term. The Israelis see themselves as Israelis and the Palestinians see themselves as Palestinians, and both of them have a right to self determination. Maybe some form of federal/confederate system would be somewhat possible, but the federal powers would have to be so weak that it would really be a unified state only in name.

          But it’s somewhat viable to find a two-state solution that is somewhat mutually acceptable, and so pursuing that is the best bet for finding a way to end the conflict.

          • Zaktor@sopuli.xyz
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            3 months ago

            It’s lovely to imagine a country where Palestinians and Israelis live together in peace and harmony. But in practice, there’s no form of such a state that is an acceptable outcome for either side in the short or even medium term.

            The Israelis that would threaten violence to resist a one-state solution are the same ones who are doing violence against Palestinians now. There’s no two-state solution that is an acceptable outcome for those pursuing Israeli dominance over the entire area. There were white South Africans who also found the end of apartheid unacceptable. Some people will just be unhappy with any solution that isn’t total dominance.

            But Israelis and Palestinians already are semi-integrated. Israel has a sizable Arab minority and Palestinians from the occupied territories have been working in Israel. Gaza is undergoing famine now because almost all their food, power, and water come from Israel. Most people there aren’t rabid fundamentalists, they just want to live their lives, and that often involves trade or other interaction with people living just a few miles away.

            It’s not easy to transition from apartheid to integration, but it’s been done before, in a place that also had terroristic resistance, brutal oppression, and hardliners that wouldn’t “accept” it. And a two-state solution isn’t radically more feasible. It sounds easy to just say “set the borders and stop fighting”, but there’s huge issues like the right of return and the status of east Jerusalem that make setting mutually acceptable final borders a tall task.

          • Keeponstalin@lemmy.worldOP
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            3 months ago

            What Two-State Solution are you proposing?

            The settlements represent land-grabbing, and land-grabbing and peace-making don’t go together, it is one or the other. By its actions, if not always in its rhetoric, Israel has opted for land-grabbing and as we speak Israel is expanding settlements. So, Israel has been systematically destroying the basis for a viable Palestinian state and this is the declared objective of the Likud and Netanyahu who used to pretend to accept a two-state solution. In the lead up to the last election, he said there will be no Palestinian state on his watch. The expansion of settlements and the wall mean that there cannot be a viable Palestinian state with territorial contiguity. The most that the Palestinians can hope for is Bantustans, a series of enclaves surrounded by Israeli settlements and Israeli military bases.

            • Avi Shlaim