My grandma used to work at a Catholic charity to distribute food for people without resources.
There were a few Muslims who requested food from there, and they always complained that the meat wasn’t halal. Their very Catholic response was that they treated everyone the same, and weren’t going to change the food they offered just because some Muslims were complaining.
Then again, quite very Catholicly, they didn’t offer any meat during Lent to anyone.
Like I get not providing food you disapprove of. Food Not Bombs is supposed to be vegan food, but also when helping people, make reasonable accommodations to ensure you’re meeting needs they have. Haram meat given to a Muslim is useless, you’re better off giving that meat to someone else. No matter how many cheeseburgers you give a vegan, you won’t fill their stomach.
In fact this is one of the issues with charity as a concept. Many who do it expect gratitude for whatever they give and see requests for something that would help better or to stop giving things that will only go to waste as being a choosy beggar. When aiding people you need to ask them what they need, otherwise any help you provide is accidental.
If you are getting help from someone you shouldn’t complain about their preferences.
In my country they don’t pay property taxes, and often use charity as a justification. So it’s debatable if their help with strings attached is a net positive.
Give me your wallet and I’ll buy you an acceptable dinner with it.
I just treat that shit like an allergy.
I don’t get your point. They give food away for free and they choose what and when. What’s wrong with that, exactly? That their choices correlate with their religion? Well, duh.
The story is illustrative of the failure of private charities as public institutions.
We’ve got two sets of dietary restrictions, one of which the Catholics disregard and the other they faithfully apply. This makes their charity functionally inaccessible to the chunk of their neighborhood that’s Muslim.
This recalls another common instance in church charities, wherein recipients are pressured into prayer before receiving aid. As many of these charities - particularly in the wake of the Bush 43 era “Faith Based Initiatives” charity privatization initiative - obtain their aid from the federal government, what you have is secular aid filtered through sectarian institutions as a means of cultivating particular ideological views.
What’s wrong with that, exactly?
Set aside the generic legalist “Seperation of Church and State” 1st amendment guidelines, wherein residents aren’t obligated to hold religious views in order to access government services.
The fundamental problem with a state sponsored religious charity is that it polarizes the community into economic haves and have-nots, based on religious beliefs. And that foments discord, bigotry, and ultimately violence.
This reminds me of the term “rice christians.” When Christian missionaries would go abroad and offer aid to people only if they converted.
For the record, the charity I was talking about does also receive funding from the government, due to the religious institutions pressure through their media and their own preachers, so these criticisms are also appropriate for that situation.
They’re imposing their customs based on dogma on vulnerable people with little to no capacity to choose, with no larger basis than “it’s what I was indoctrinated to believe”. It’s doubly shameful because this is a country that has been trying to unshackle itself from the legacy of a Fascist Catholic dictatorship, the Inquisition, and the forced expulsion/conversion of Jews and Muslims.
Halal/kosher is basically a “farm to table” supply chain requirement. Especially if you’re relying on donations it wouldn’t be simple to source. I wouldn’t expect any charity really to refuse supplies or try to source a ‘duplicate’ set of supplies for a minority of the people they serve. If they were in a Muslim majority area it would make sense to go to the effort.
The donations they took was money. They bought the food directly from the supermarket, which does have halal items here.
Ah.
Yeah that’s kind of a dick move.
Which religion said I can’t have sex with an ice cream cone in a park?
Because that cops was an asshole.
The Bible even says it’s better for a man to put his seed in an ice cream cone than it is to let it fall to the ground. Though they may have just been talking about the ice cream cone. 🤔
It’s is illegal to carry an ice cream cone in your back pocket on Sundays in the state of New York
“my religion forbids me from talking to someone who has ice cream unless i also have ice cream, so shut your fucking mouth.”
That’s all well and good, but now this guy is calling the cops on you.
I do have an amount of pity for people with extreme religious views. I remember talking to an atheist friends extremely religious mother who was trying to come to to terms with the fact her daughter was going to go to hell one day.
Imagine walking through the park and seeing someone about to eat an ice cream that you know has a powerful psychoactive substance in that will kick in after few years that tricks the persons brain into believing they’re being tortured until their brain turns to mush.
I absolutely don’t agree with people spreading their religious doctrine, especially when unwelcome, but many of those people could be considered victims to that choice and don’t deserve to be antagonised.
WHY ARENT YOU BEING TOLERANT?
/s
Well, that certainly covers Christianity, Islam, and some select groups of Judaism. It’s not really fair to make such a generalization when it kind of only applies to religions that hold a majority in their respective nations.
I get the sentiment, but if you eat ice cream on Mondays you are just evil. Ice cream clearly is a Tuesday treat. /s
Excuse me heathen? It’s literally Taco Tuesday it’s in the name!
:P
I see your argument and raise you choco tacos
I mean, this but its unironic. “Eating ice cream on mondays in the park is murder and if I catch you doing it I’m going to treat you like I would if I saw you committing a murder”.
I don’t really like this comic, because it trivializes what is generally seen as a serious medical issue. A ban on ice cream would be vastly preferable to a ban on abortion, as you’re not going to die from a lack of ice cream. This feels more akin to a Christian Scientist passing a statewide ban on blood transfusions.
To be fair, this comic isn’t just about abortion. It could also apply to things like “modesty” laws in places like Iran.
It doesn’t matter what the ice cream represents. If the argument for a law is wholly religious in nature, then it is unjust.
Yep. My first thought was a flashback to Catholic school where they were trying to take away my roast beef sandwich and give me a fish sandwich cause it was Friday. They already knew I wasn’t Catholic, or even Christian, they just didn’t know what I was because they weren’t about to find out.
Silly strawman caricature of reasonable argumentation.
“Well I think its OK for me to beat my wife, so you shouldn’t mind me doing so.”
Quite different in this case, yet it follows a similar logic. Things can unaffect you diferectly, yet still be wrong.
Using the obscene ice cream example is a unsophisticated attempt to discredit this line of reasoning.
“Well I think its OK for me to beat my wife, so you shouldn’t mind me doing so.”
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Husband: I consent
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Jesus: I consent
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Wife: I don’t
Isn’t there someone you forgot to ask?
Things can unaffect you diferectly, yet still be wrong.
What would you consider a hospital staffer refusing to provide medical aid to a woman in the middle of a deadly miscarriage, because the hospital administrator is afraid of being sued or arrested for performing an abortion?
What would you consider a hospital > > staffer refusing to provide medical aid to a woman in the middle of a deadly miscarriage, because the hospital administrator is afraid of being sued or arrested for performing an abortion?
In that situation it is clearly wrong not to help, because in the case of a miscarriage the fetus would die also presumably. And many Christians would agree.
But for cases of no risk to the mother the morality of facilitating an abortion can be more dubious. The conservatives certainly have a strong position, even if I disagree with it.
-
Ok so let’s use a real example. Many Christians are anti-LGBT based on their interpretations of the Bible and their moral beliefs.
So should we ban homosexuality?
Also your argument is just as flawed. The average person has a moral objection to domestic violence. This comic is referring to when there’s a difference between the average person’s moral beliefs and the religious ones, especially the radical zealot’s belief
So should we ban homosexuality?
No because its not morally wrong.
In the case of abortion the conservatives have some strong arguments even though I am in favour of it.
No because its not morally wrong
Morals are subjective. In someone else’s mind homosexuality could be immoral, and this has been the case historically.
In civilized world laws are not (or should not) be based on “morality”, but to ensure level and fair playing ground for all people. This includes not restricting persons way of expressing their sexuality as long as it doesn’t negatively affect others (ie. Rape, pedophilia, zoophilia, etc)
Of course we don’t live in that kind of utopia but I hope we’re getting better slowly
nah, this is how vegan treat others
Well “yes,” but “that is because to the ideological vegans, it is a religion,” so not “nah” but “yes and-.”
you’re glitching
No it makes perfect sense, let me break it down for you.
nah, this is how vegan treat others
See, here he denies that this is how the religious treat people with “nah,” offering up vegans as the “true” exhibitors of this behavior. Now to break down my response piece by piece.
Well “yes,”
He is correct, that is how ideological vegans, the ones who feel you should be vegan for moral reasons and as a result are very preachy and evangelistic, operate.
but “that is because to the ideological vegans, it is a religion,”
but the ideological vegans behave this way due to the fact that ideological veganism is tantamount to a religion
so not “nah” but “yes and-.”
So, with this in mind, the “nah” isn’t accurate, as both ideological vegans and the religious both act with the same vitriolic fervor due to them considering themselves morally superior to their respective “out” groups, so instead of
nah, this is how vegan treat others
It is
Yes (this is how the religious treat others), and this is how vegan treat others, as well.
To further explain the “yes and-” joke, Here is a youtube video from some random guy about the rules of improv. #2- “yes and-” is of particular import to this discussion, as it may be key to understanding the reference.
I hope that helped you understand my complex comment, no need to glitch about it.
(Just preemptively, to explain, see, “glitch” rhymes with “removed,” and so you see a pun was made in which you said I’m glitching and I said “no need to glitch about it,” you see. I hope this one was not similarly misunderstood.)
Don’t forget r/fuckcars
car-centric infrastructure destroys cities and residential areas, you’re stupid if you think r/fuckcars is relevant to this meme. most people on r/fuckcars have a car
https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/comments/uggv41/on_deflating_tires/
Many of them believe they should deflate the tires of people they consider “car heads”. The theme here is forcing others to live how you want them to based on your personal values rather than letting people be.
Seems pretty relevant to me
Generally when tires are deflated it’s people who are in ultra expensive and dangerous SUVs which are basically just killing machines and nothing else. But people deflating tires is a very small amount in the community regardless, although I could see people deflating the tires of those who endanger others very realistic.
Yank tanks (unreasonably gigantic and dangerous SUVs which are almost always American, named so because other countries have started being infected by them and now the rest of the world is mad at us) are just bad. Owning one is bad, using one is especially bad, they only exist to be the bigger vehicle so they can “win” car crashes and crush pedestrians like a tank (and because they cna bypass emissions regulations). It isn’t a matter of “I want to live this way so you have to live this way”, it’s “you’re endangering the lives of everyone around you beyond a tolerable amount”. So no, it’s not relevant at all.
Honestly your argument kind of sounds like someone against no-smoking zones because “let people smoke, just because you don’t want to doesn’t mean they can’t”. Second hand smoke endangers the health of a lot of people around you, it has nothing to do with other peoples’ not wanting to smoke – same goes with SUVs, they’re one of the largest causes of death that isn’t a chronic health problem, they are a danger. If smoking at, say, a middle school were legal, and someone did it with kids around, I’d have no issue with stealing their smokes and chucking them into a trash can, even if what they were doing wasn’t illegal it’s still immoral. Even if it caused them serious issues and withdrawal and stuff, what they’re doing endangers others and I’m fine if someone takes it into their own hands to put a stop to it. You can apply that same logic to yank tanks.
Funny you justify these actions on this post by arguing morality.
To a religious person, the threat of creating an immoral society is worse then say smoking or polluting. The soul is eternal and corruption would result in greater then a lifetime of consequence whereas your examples do not.
Point I’m arguing isn’t to say one is right or wring but can you understand your arguing from the same concern as the person in the meme above.
Religious beliefs aren’t real, they’re delusions, and being gay or some other random “sin” isn’t at all comparable to what I’m speaking of. Cars are the #1 cause of death in the US other than health complications, most of those SUVs, they are demonstratably extremely harmful to society even if you don’t consider how their dominance destroys our infrastructure design, increases stress, and how they pollute the Earth a ton.
It’s silly to cater to people who believe in Christianity or something similar when we have actual problems that we have proven solutions for, like getting rid of car-dependent infrastructure. Compared to say, being gay or uttering the words “oh my God”, which according to Christian belief are equally as bad as murder, slavery, and rape or even worse than it on the sin scale. If a religion believes in a hell, especially when believing in an omniscient and omnipotent future-seeing God, it’s worth immediately disregarding everything from.
Even entertaining the idea that the Christian ideas of morality have any basis in reality, especially putting it on the same level as actual science, is unbelievable.
Religious beliefs aren’t real
That is your opinion and not shared by others.
The point isn’t that you have to do anything. You theme here is that you live your life and respect others living their own life. You have argued as if its a zero sum situation where you can force your belief on others and you refuse to accept that allows others to do the same.
Religion is very real to some people and not respecting that can absolutely lead to the same attitudes being presented in the above. It leads to one group initializing the other and acting like they know better.
