I feel like I’ve been kind of in the loop for most of the headlines regarding this confrontation. Yet somehow I can’t find it within myself to actually care about either side. It seems like both are lead by genocidal parties, hell bent on indoctrinating their populace into hating the other side. Yet at the same time people are able to discern which state is the good one. And some going so far as to believe that one state might even be right over the other.

So far from what I’ve read and heard, it seems that overall Isreal is just more successful militarily and is encroaching on Palestinian land, and is exhibiting control over some of it. Is that the reason why one might support Palestine? Is it the fact that Isreal has more direct power in the region and thus can easily execute its will a problematic issue for some? From what I can see, both sides have caused massive civilian casualties and neither side wants a two state solution, so neither of those reasons can be a contributing factor to side picking, right? That being said, I can’t find a reason for supporting Isreal, so does Palestine win out by default? But what of the people that support Isreal, do they do that purely because they’re an American ally? Is any of this side taking have anything to do with the insertion of Jews into the region? What is expected to be done outside of a two state solution or genocide by those taking sides?

I have a lot of questions, and I obviously don’t expect all of them to be answered in a single post. So maybe focusing on the elements you’re highly informed on would be helpful and then I can kind of piece together the details. Thank you in advance!

  • livus@mander.xyz
    11·
    7 months ago

    Okay there are more than 2 sides.

    Personally I am on the side of civilians whether they are Israeli or Palestinian or Druze or Bedouin. I am also on the side of the doctors, nurses, and humanitarian aid workers. These are who I consider the Good Guys. “Look for the helpers.” - Mr Rodgers.

    But to cover your question, there’s two separate issues here:

    • the claims of the belligerents

    • feelings about what is happening now in the Israel Gaza war

    The past claims of the belligerents

    I’m not going to go into this, but but it goes back to history and it’s where the side-taking on the sides of the belligerents mostly comes from, because different people have different interpretations. Legally speaking Palestine is occupied by Israel (West Bank) and blockaded by Israel (Gaza). No one can get in or out, it’s effectively controlled by Israel.

    What is happening now

    What is happening now is a “war” between the IDF and Hamas. People like me, who are rooting for civilians are upset about:

    • proportionality (so far about 33,000 Palestinian deaths vs 1,400 Israeli deaths)

    • mortality (currently over 1.5% of the population of Gaza have been killed)

    • civilian mortality - high numbers of children being killed (according to aid agencies, one is killed or injured every 10 minutes)

    • high numbers of humanitarian workers and medical staff being killed

    • inappropriate weapon choices (hundreds of 2,000lb bombs are being dropped, for reference the US used just one in its war against Isis.

    • widespread infrastructure destruction, particularly of hospitals and other important buildings

    • mounting evidence of starvation in the civilian population due to blockade of aid

    Personally I am against anyone treating a civilian population like this for any reason, and I believe it amounts to war crimes. I was against the killing of civilians in Myanmar, Rwanda, East Timor, and I am against it now.

    Side note: The median age in Gaza is 18, meaning literally half the people in it are still children.

    Edit: I haven’t given any sources cos lazy. I am happy to give them to OP or anyone in good faith (there are probably a bunch on the post history of my main which is livus@kbin.social). However, I do not speak sealionese.

    • ThePerfectLink@lemmy.worldOP
      01·
      7 months ago

      Ok, from what I can tell, most of what people care about regarding the current conflict doesn’t really involve around belligerents. So I think we can safely put that on the back burner. At least for the current wave of side taking. My one question after reading most of the comments is this, how many of Israel’s violent actions against civilians directly target civilians vs targeting Hamas and have civilians stuck in the crossfire? Because I’ve heard of Hamas using civilian areas as staging grounds as an attempt to ward off enemy fire. Is Israel going and killing civilians outside of these instances?

      Slightly unrelated question, are many people taking sides in the general occupation of Palistinian land, or is this newest wave side taking mostly focused on the civilians in Gaza vs Israeli force.