The Palestinian side has always been open to that idea
That has no basis in reality. They tried to prevent the creation of a non-muslim state and failing that, they gathered troops to destroy it from day 1.
That has always been what ceasefires mean in this conflict, for both sides. You certainly don’t see Israel not building settlements or not bombing Gaza or any of the other examples of their colonialist aggression during ceasefires. This is irrespective of how faithfully the Palestinian side adheres to the ceasefire (see: 2008 and 2013 ceasefires).
Well regarding the West Bank, that of course is something where Israel is blocking a ‘fair’ solution as well. They’re not much better than their opposition in that regard. But even if you look at it from a pacifist Israeli pov, there’s a case to be made for wanting to control that territory, together with the Golan Heights: these are strategically important to keep Israel defensible. In the war of '67 they were lucky to learn of the plans of the coming invasion early enough to defend against them. But if they hadn’t, Israel could have been overrun ‘from within’ from the West-Bank rather easily. Which is why the wish of the zionists converged with that of the military to keep it.
With Gaza it’s quite the opposite: Israel decided in 2005 to just withdraw from it and leave them to themselves. They didn’t just go bomb them ‘for fun’. Continuing small terrorist attacks made them build a wall around them with tedious checkpoints. Hamas starts shooting rockets over it so they place interceptor missiles and, yes, try to bomb the launch sites and weapon deposits. Hamas overruns their defenses, kills or kidnaps everyone they can. So that’s where we are now. It’s not like Hamas was just peacefully sipping tea and going about their business, totally not launching near daily attacks on Israel, for 20 years
That has no basis in reality. They tried to prevent the creation of a non-muslim state and failing that, they gathered troops to destroy it from day 1.
Always here means since the 90s or so. I should’ve probably clarified that. That aside, you seem to have issues with Palestinians’ opposition to the creation of an Apartheid state where they’re meant to be second class citizens (because let’s face it, Israel is not and was never going to be a proper democracy).
But even if you look at it from a pacifist Israeli pov, there’s a case to be made for wanting to control that territory, together with the Golan Heights: these are strategically important to keep Israel defensible. In the war of '67 they were lucky to learn of the plans of the coming invasion early enough to defend against them. But if they hadn’t, Israel could have been overrun ‘from within’ from the West-Bank rather easily. Which is why the wish of the zionists converged with that of the military to keep it.
Why are you treating Israel’s convenience as being more important than Palestinian lives? This attitude is why the conflict is still going. You can’t talk like that and call what you come up with an “equal and just peace”. If Israel can’t exist without committing slow burn genocide (or just regular genocide since October 7), then why should it?
With Gaza it’s quite the opposite: Israel decided in 2005 to just withdraw from it and leave them to themselves.
Uh… That is a massive misinterpretation of history. Israel withdrew and, at the same time, started what would go on to become the Gaza blockade.
try to bomb the launch sites and weapon deposits.
Man, just face reality. Have you seen how Gaza looks like now? It’s been orders of magnitude worse since October 7, but everything-the starvation, the poor sanitation, the blatantly disregard of civilian lives, if not outright murderous intent. This has been daily life in Gaza for 20 years. Like hell they left them to themselves.
totally not launching near daily attacks on Israel, for 20 years
Okay, let me just say this: You need to read less blatant Israeli propaganda if this is your image of the past 20 years in Gaza. Start by looking at the timeline of this part of the conflict starting with the Israeli withdrawal. Then you should look at the 2008 ceasefire and 2013 ceasefire, and the vehement Israeli opposition to lifting the blockade or allowing a united government of Gaza and the West Bank. Israel as an entity is opposed to peace as a concept, as are all settler colonies. If you can’t accept the fact that Israel is a settler colony not unlike 19th century America and pre-independence Ireland, then this conversation is over.
That has no basis in reality. They tried to prevent the creation of a non-muslim state and failing that, they gathered troops to destroy it from day 1.
Well regarding the West Bank, that of course is something where Israel is blocking a ‘fair’ solution as well. They’re not much better than their opposition in that regard. But even if you look at it from a pacifist Israeli pov, there’s a case to be made for wanting to control that territory, together with the Golan Heights: these are strategically important to keep Israel defensible. In the war of '67 they were lucky to learn of the plans of the coming invasion early enough to defend against them. But if they hadn’t, Israel could have been overrun ‘from within’ from the West-Bank rather easily. Which is why the wish of the zionists converged with that of the military to keep it.
With Gaza it’s quite the opposite: Israel decided in 2005 to just withdraw from it and leave them to themselves. They didn’t just go bomb them ‘for fun’. Continuing small terrorist attacks made them build a wall around them with tedious checkpoints. Hamas starts shooting rockets over it so they place interceptor missiles and, yes, try to bomb the launch sites and weapon deposits. Hamas overruns their defenses, kills or kidnaps everyone they can. So that’s where we are now. It’s not like Hamas was just peacefully sipping tea and going about their business, totally not launching near daily attacks on Israel, for 20 years
Always here means since the 90s or so. I should’ve probably clarified that. That aside, you seem to have issues with Palestinians’ opposition to the creation of an Apartheid state where they’re meant to be second class citizens (because let’s face it, Israel is not and was never going to be a proper democracy).
Why are you treating Israel’s convenience as being more important than Palestinian lives? This attitude is why the conflict is still going. You can’t talk like that and call what you come up with an “equal and just peace”. If Israel can’t exist without committing slow burn genocide (or just regular genocide since October 7), then why should it?
Uh… That is a massive misinterpretation of history. Israel withdrew and, at the same time, started what would go on to become the Gaza blockade.
Man, just face reality. Have you seen how Gaza looks like now? It’s been orders of magnitude worse since October 7, but everything-the starvation, the poor sanitation, the blatantly disregard of civilian lives, if not outright murderous intent. This has been daily life in Gaza for 20 years. Like hell they left them to themselves.
Okay, let me just say this: You need to read less blatant Israeli propaganda if this is your image of the past 20 years in Gaza. Start by looking at the timeline of this part of the conflict starting with the Israeli withdrawal. Then you should look at the 2008 ceasefire and 2013 ceasefire, and the vehement Israeli opposition to lifting the blockade or allowing a united government of Gaza and the West Bank. Israel as an entity is opposed to peace as a concept, as are all settler colonies. If you can’t accept the fact that Israel is a settler colony not unlike 19th century America and pre-independence Ireland, then this conversation is over.