I’ve noticed in the Linux community whenever someone asks for a recommendation on a laptop that runs Linux the answer is always “Get a Thinkpad” yet Lenovo doesn’t seem to be a big Linux contributor or ally. There’s also at least six Linux/FOSS-oriented computer manufacturers now:
So what gives? Why the love for a primarily Windows-oriented laptop when there are better alternatives?
Because these are small shops that have limited availability outside North America, and are fairly expensive compared to Thinkpads which are widely used by corporations, and can be found pretty cheaply.
Exactly this - none of those vendors will sell to me, but I can get a ThinkPad shipped from any of the major local retailers, or direct from Lenovo themselves. I’d love a Framework, and I’m trying to set it up so I can get one shipped to a friend in the UK who will be visiting next year but I’m sceptical that the timing will work out or that Framework will accept my credit card
What I don’t like about buying things from abroad is that RMA-ing gets difficult and expensive.
It comes down to price. You can buy used ThinkPads and replacement parts for them quite cheap a lot of the time.
It’s been a while since I’ve looked at devices from places like System 76 but if I recall correctly they are still over a thousand dollars when a used ThinkPad T440P for example can be found for around two hundred dollars.
Framework laptops are interesting and I hope eventually the modularity allows the components to go down in price. Right now I was looking at a 16 (which all sold out within 3 hours of pre-order launch) but it comes out to easily over 3k CAD for a disassembled kit, skimping on RAM and an SSD.
I can confirm this with personal experience. Wife has T470 (if memory serves, something around that) for 100€. That was from previous work and they offered my old laptop for cheap, so it doesn’t really count as average, but not uncommon either at least around here. I got myself T495 a while ago for 299€ from “public” market and have been purchasing couple years old thinkpads for decades now. There’s plenty of those available, they work just fine for the workload we have for laptops (I got a separate desktop for more power hungry applications) and they’ve proven to be pretty reliable workhorses since the brand was owned by IBM.
Framework specially is really interesting approach and I’d love to test to their hardware, but they don’t have Finnish keyboard available just yet and I can get several used thinkpads for the price of one framework, so as long as I’m using my own hard earned money I rather spend it on a known brand where I already know what I’m getting into and spend considerably less money while doing so.
Also with linux thinkpads tend to work just fine or at least there’s documentation and howtos to get everything working.
Where did you find a t495 for that price of you don’t mind me asking?
Taitonetti.fi. Local shop which refurbishes and sells previously leased computers, so their selection varies quite a bit, but I’ve been a happy customer for years and they have frequent sales for the ‘last of the batch’ computers where mine came as well. However I think they don’t ship to outside of Finland, so it might not be so helpful for you.
T440P is cheap for a reason. Personally I don’t want a 6 pound laptop with a decade old CPU and a crappy TN screen. Something like a used T480 is reasonable though I guess
I use an early 2010s Thinkpad, with Ubuntu, and I can play Minecraft pretty well on it. It’s great. I don’t often carry it places, it’s a desk laptop, but I don’t know of any other affordable laptop that would have such a long useful lifespan. If you know of any, please tell me, but my experiences has made me quite the Lenovo loyalist.
Replacement parts are a removed though. At least when it comes to batteries. The only battery I’ve seen with any positive reviews are Green Cell which is European, so shipping is absurd, and Duracell which no longer produces thinkpad batteries.
purism is a scam
A few years ago I bought a librem 13 and it was the biggest piece of trash I’ve ever had the displeasure of owning.
I’m curious. why?
Those linux laptops are too expensive and they are not available in some countries
Used thinkpad is much cheaper
Maybe there’s a better place for this question, but how do you make sure a used laptop is safe? Or would removing Windows and installing Linux be enough?
I want to buy a laptop for Linux, and would buy a used one so that it’s cheaper but I have to admit I worry about it. I know one could be worried even about new laptops and what manufacturers could be up to, but I feel like the unknown arbitrariness of a used laptop gets to me.
You could look into a Libreboot compatible model. When buying a used laptop for Linux the big thing you need to be careful of is a locked BIOS
this is what Im going through right now haha, found a old laptop in our ewaste but the bios is locked, watching a few videos on how to reset the bios I have to take the whole thing apart to short out two pins, might be worth it but it is definitely a project for another day
Depending on the model you might want to take a look and see if something like coreboot is available while you’re at it
Whoa thank you I’ll have to check it out, looks like skulls would work for my w530
Because of better accessibility. How so?
Because not everyone has the money to afford these new and expensive laptops designed for a niche market. They are still enthusiast-grade products, the prices speak for themselves.
Because not everyone comes from Europe / the US, so it’s not easy to find these with affordable shipping.
Because these laptops are only normally offered new, which, for responsible and personal ownership, is excessive. There are thousands of used hardware lying around, why not put some life back into them instead?
It comes down to price, availability and ethical concerns. Unless money doesn’t mean anything to you, why do you need a $1000 laptop when someone wants a device for higher education or personal casual use? The world doesn’t need more rampant marketing of niche, hyped-up tech. While a fully-FOSS system may be the ideal machine for every Linux enthusiast, we live in a material world with finite resources and chasing after some unicorn laptop is unsustainable.
Not everyone lives in America and has access to all, if any, of those options.
System76 and Pinebook never ever ship to Indonesia even they have branch in Singapore, or even sorting center in Batam Area (which is Indonesian soil), :/
At least you still have a lot of options shipping to Indonesia. Of all the listed options above, only Starlabs ships here in the Philippines 🥲
They aren’t shipping here at all… Like I said, even they have warehouse in Indonesian soil, it only used for… supporting Singapore… it’s strange condition tbh…
I’d say lack of marketing and higher price tags. Money / Performance ratio is also better with a decent Thinkpad.
Some of these options can’t (or not without high markups) be bought and shipped to Canada.
Because it use common hardware and bought “en masse” by enterprises; they tend to be more supported with FOSS than other options.
I’ve been happy with my used T480 so far.
Cost.
Older Thinkpads remain extremely capable and (crucially) highly repairable. The T series in particular is also better built (read: more solid chassis) than many others, including some on this list.
It doesn’t make a lot of sense to support these alternatives given the absolute shock difference in cost. $300 bucks for a used T series gets you a lot from a customizability, repairability, and reliability standpoint.
It doesn’t make a lot of sense to support these alternatives given the absolute shock difference in cost. $300 bucks for a used T series gets you a lot from a customizability, repairability, and reliability standpoint.
- bios updates leaves you at the mercy of the manufacturer;
- not every bios and distro works w lenovo’s bios update utility;
- and your battery life & performance has a big dependency on your bios so using something that it’s not designed to handle (eg anything that’s not windows) will result in less than optimal results. 3.5) same goes for hardware eg nvidia
I’ve had 4-5 such systems running Linux and never experienced any issues with BIOS.
Obviously you shouldn’t get a model using nvidia if you want to run Linux on it (unless you are aware of the extra time it takes to set up and the other pitfalls). I do actually have a T440p with a 730m in it – and it’s fine, I just run the open-source driver.
Cause thinkpads are cheap and easy to come by
Source: i work in ewaste
Out of curiosity, do you ever rescue laptops from your work and use or resell them?
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Avoid purism at all costs. Watch Louis Rossman video on Purism mobile.
I hope nobody recommends Thinkpads manufactured after 2020. They’re pure garbage in so many ways, that there’s no point to list them all.
Because not one of those laptops have a TrackPoint style mouse.
You mean the nipple mouse?
Could be worse.
https://xkcd.com/243/I always called it a nub. I haven’t used one as an adult but I could definitely see myself calling it the clit mouse.
Nub is correct, also nubs are best laptop mouse once you get to know them.
Edit, Lenovo now calls them “Caps” and that is lame.
In France I’ve always call this a clit or clito since they exist (80s? 90s?)
In the Netherlands, I’ve always known it as “the clit”, the same goes for my dad who’s been in the IT since the 80s.
This
I’ve run Linux on a bunch of different kinds of laptops and the only time that ever actually looks “good” is on a ThinkPad.
