OK, but sending weapons to either of these places is bad, both for the people whose wealth is being wasted to blow up people on the other side of the world, mostly civilians (almost entirely civilians in Israel’s case) and the people getting blown up
The US is not supplying Ukraine with weapons because they have any interest in the well-being of the people in Ukraine. They are supplying the weapons to extend a war as long as possible to weaken Russia, at the expense of hundreds of thousands of dead and wounded Ukrainians and millions displaced.
This is infinitely worse for the people living there than if Russia won a quick victory or if we’d taken literally any off-ramp in the last decade.
It doesn’t matter what the US supplies Ukraine. It’s Ukraines fight. It’s up to Ukraine to decide to forfeit the fight or to keep fighting.
By your logic we (humanity) should just let any country invade any other country and take over it’s people just because “it’s easier to give in than fight.” Giving in would be for the benefit of the people, right? That’s what you’re saying? Fuck right off.
Russia should not have invaded Ukraine in the first place.
The US and its allies have sabotaged peace talks between Ukraine and Russia on multiple occasions. European politicians have been talking about putting EU troops on Ukrainian soil in support roles so that more Ukrainian men can charge directly into Russian artillery fire for the past few months. In the months leading up to the invasion, the western media apparatus was braying for Russian blood with a fervor that I hadn’t seen since the runup to the Iraq War - and for ten years now the US has been directly backing anti-Russian elements inside Ukraine, regardless of the fact that many of those elements were literally fascists, leading directly to the Maidan coup and the ethnic schism in Ukrainian society that resulted in the civil war.
I’m not arguing that it hasn’t been a proxy war. Of course, NATO doesn’t want a global superpower to take over another country. It sets a precedence. Just like they(we) wouldn’t want China to freely take over Taiwan.
Sabatoged peace talks? All the peace talks included Russia taking over at least some of Ukraine’s land. At which point, they slowly move their borders, encapsulating Ukraine piece by piece, year by year. Submitting to “Peace Talks” in which Russia is able to take some kind of Ukrainian land is submission to Russia.
Ukraine didn’t invade Russia. Russia should have simply never invaded Ukraine. Ukraine can fight this with whatever they can get from around the world.
Ukraine can fight this with whatever they can get from around the world.
You ignored the entirety of my point, which is that Ukraine has signaled that they want the conflict to end, but their masters in Washington and the EU are pressing them forward regardless. Donbas has been functionally independent from Ukraine for almost ten years now, and only two of those with Russian troops supporting it. It’s not Ukrainian territory anymore in any way that matters.
Ukraine wants the conflict to end with its borders intact and the aggressors out of its territory. It has stated this multiple times, just like any other established country would. It shouldn’t have to give up Donbas just for Russia to cease fire for X years and then creep on forward.
If Ukraine truly wanted the conflict to end and just wanted to be bent over by Russia they would send up the white flag. Luckily they won’t; thankfully they’re fighting; hopefully they continue to push back. Just giving Russia free reign over invaded land sets a bad precedence.
It’s Ukraines fight. It’s up to Ukraine to decide to forfeit the fight or to keep fighting.
It was laughably corrupt before the war, and since it’s literally suspended elections. It’s a war between Russia and Ukraine’s ruling classes, the people only pay the price.
Russia should not have invaded Ukraine in the first place.
Sure, but Russia’s government doesn’t pretend to represent you or me. The US government does. We could have also avoided this by not doing a coup in Ukraine and putting a hostile government right on Russia’s border.
cmon do you really believe that the US had nothing to do with the 2014 color revolution or the government that formed after? I mean you can just google news articles from the time, even western news sources were reporting on how the US and EU were involved in the creation and makeup of the new government.
This was before Zelenski won on a platform of peace, and then failed to get the right-wing militias under control.
Are we really gonna sit here and act like Russia doesn’t do the same governmental meddling in other countries? This is really just global politics 101, and it wasn’t worth invading a country over.
Ukraine didn’t invade Russia. Some countries have hostile borders, this isn’t uncommon. Invasions to take over the government isn’t the solution, but Russia has made the bed that they’re gonna lay in. Allowing Russia to take Ukraine sets a dangerous precedence.
OK, but sending weapons to either of these places is bad, both for the people whose wealth is being wasted to blow up people on the other side of the world, mostly civilians (almost entirely civilians in Israel’s case) and the people getting blown up
Supplying Ukraine with the weapons needed to defend themselves against a Russian invasion is bad?!?
The US is not supplying Ukraine with weapons because they have any interest in the well-being of the people in Ukraine. They are supplying the weapons to extend a war as long as possible to weaken Russia, at the expense of hundreds of thousands of dead and wounded Ukrainians and millions displaced.
This is infinitely worse for the people living there than if Russia won a quick victory or if we’d taken literally any off-ramp in the last decade.
Fucking what?
It doesn’t matter what the US supplies Ukraine. It’s Ukraines fight. It’s up to Ukraine to decide to forfeit the fight or to keep fighting.
By your logic we (humanity) should just let any country invade any other country and take over it’s people just because “it’s easier to give in than fight.” Giving in would be for the benefit of the people, right? That’s what you’re saying? Fuck right off.
Russia should not have invaded Ukraine in the first place.
The US and its allies have sabotaged peace talks between Ukraine and Russia on multiple occasions. European politicians have been talking about putting EU troops on Ukrainian soil in support roles so that more Ukrainian men can charge directly into Russian artillery fire for the past few months. In the months leading up to the invasion, the western media apparatus was braying for Russian blood with a fervor that I hadn’t seen since the runup to the Iraq War - and for ten years now the US has been directly backing anti-Russian elements inside Ukraine, regardless of the fact that many of those elements were literally fascists, leading directly to the Maidan coup and the ethnic schism in Ukrainian society that resulted in the civil war.
It’s a proxy war, always has been.
I’m not arguing that it hasn’t been a proxy war. Of course, NATO doesn’t want a global superpower to take over another country. It sets a precedence. Just like they(we) wouldn’t want China to freely take over Taiwan.
Sabatoged peace talks? All the peace talks included Russia taking over at least some of Ukraine’s land. At which point, they slowly move their borders, encapsulating Ukraine piece by piece, year by year. Submitting to “Peace Talks” in which Russia is able to take some kind of Ukrainian land is submission to Russia.
Ukraine didn’t invade Russia. Russia should have simply never invaded Ukraine. Ukraine can fight this with whatever they can get from around the world.
Peace offer:
I receive: your land
You receive: I stop trying to kill you (for now)
I can’t believe the only reason they’re not accepting this deal so graciously offered by Russia is the US stopping them
You ignored the entirety of my point, which is that Ukraine has signaled that they want the conflict to end, but their masters in Washington and the EU are pressing them forward regardless. Donbas has been functionally independent from Ukraine for almost ten years now, and only two of those with Russian troops supporting it. It’s not Ukrainian territory anymore in any way that matters.
Ukraine wants the conflict to end with its borders intact and the aggressors out of its territory. It has stated this multiple times, just like any other established country would. It shouldn’t have to give up Donbas just for Russia to cease fire for X years and then creep on forward.
If Ukraine truly wanted the conflict to end and just wanted to be bent over by Russia they would send up the white flag. Luckily they won’t; thankfully they’re fighting; hopefully they continue to push back. Just giving Russia free reign over invaded land sets a bad precedence.
It was laughably corrupt before the war, and since it’s literally suspended elections. It’s a war between Russia and Ukraine’s ruling classes, the people only pay the price.
Sure, but Russia’s government doesn’t pretend to represent you or me. The US government does. We could have also avoided this by not doing a coup in Ukraine and putting a hostile government right on Russia’s border.
The US had nothing to do with Zelenski getting into power in Ukraine. That is a lie from the Kremlin. Thanks for taking the mask off Russian Shill
cmon do you really believe that the US had nothing to do with the 2014 color revolution or the government that formed after? I mean you can just google news articles from the time, even western news sources were reporting on how the US and EU were involved in the creation and makeup of the new government.
This was before Zelenski won on a platform of peace, and then failed to get the right-wing militias under control.
Are we really gonna sit here and act like Russia doesn’t do the same governmental meddling in other countries? This is really just global politics 101, and it wasn’t worth invading a country over.
Ukraine didn’t invade Russia. Some countries have hostile borders, this isn’t uncommon. Invasions to take over the government isn’t the solution, but Russia has made the bed that they’re gonna lay in. Allowing Russia to take Ukraine sets a dangerous precedence.