My current job pays ~$19/hr it’s a nose pickers job that I took out of desperation. It’s a joint partnership between two companies where one of the companies is the sole customer. Management has been screwing us by making us work a ton of overtime because production is ramping back up. I’m supposed to go back to a regular 40 hr week “soon.” They laid off 30% of their staff a year ago. I’ve been there 5 months and trained 3 different people as they are hiring an entire 3rd shift at the moment.
I generally enjoy my coworkers as they are almost all foreigners from many different places and older. Management is generally nice enough, their hands are tied due to the parent company.
The benefits are 5% 401k company match, 160 hrs of PTO/ yr, good insurance for me and one child is $100/mo similar instance is $1k on the marketplace.
Job I’m looking at is offering close to $25/hr, is a small global company, same 8hr shift 2 weeks of vacation a year, high deductible plan for ~$400/mo which would cost me $600 on the open market, a discretionary 401k company contribution currently at 6%. I would also have more opportunities for advancement at this place and the work would be more engaging to me and likely more opportunities to improve my career as my current job is a major step back for me.
Commute is identical as they are directly across the street from each other. I would also have at least an additional $175 in medical expenses every month as I see a doctor once a month for a chronic condition. If I place a value on my time off based on my current pay rate and subtract my additional costs I figure I would only be making an extra $300/mo and that’s if I don’t have any other medical expenses. It’s also possible that I’d be walking into a more toxic working environment.
Look at the long term benefits/advancement and opportunities in the career field.
As a personal account, my first position out of college there were McDonald’s employees making more than me, however 3 years there and that was the last time I worked as an hourly employee and moved up to management, also the company I worked for was very prestigious so the opportunities to move and work overseas was available.
Granted, the 3 years was a goddamn grind…
The recruiter made a big deal out of the possibility of advancement later on as quite a few people will be retiring in the next few years. It’s still a very low level role and she talked in an unnatural corporate way, in not sure that it wasn’t an ai phone interview to be honest. They’re both manufacturers, but my current place is an assembly line and the new place would be small scale manufacturing where highly specialized parts are machined to order. I would be involved in various aspects across the facility, so I would have opportunities to learn everything about their processes and work closely with everyone from operators to engineers and management.
I would eventually like to work in something like continuous improvement and do more office work so I’m not stuck turning wrenches in my 40s and 50s.
Having worked on small scale manufacturing, I’d translate that to, “you’re expected to do the job of 3-4 people, each order will be different from the last, and any customer concerns will be directed back to you.”
Working closely with all those people could go two ways. Either they will be constantly interrupting your work to check on progress and quality, to change details of the job, and to generally hover over your shoulder, or, they will be very supportive with answers to any questions you may have and making sure you have the tools and knowledge to do the job to the customer’s specifications.
Edit: Also, climbing the ladder in a smaller company involves a lot of the 1 or 2 people in charge liking you, your style of working, and your personality
From my experience it depends on if your boss is able to manage expectations and is willing to say no. I once had a boss that would say yes to everything management asked, last minute jobs, tons of extra work, plus he would try to do a bunch of stuff himself. Then he got replaced with a guy that would go into the morning management meeting and give them realistic timelines. He would also trust us to do the work we were there to do and leave us to it. Everything went much smoother after that.
I just realized that I did this too, completely unintentionally. I just needed a job, and so I started at this company as a member services representative, on the phones. 6 years later, and I am a Process Manager in Operations Enablement.
The number one thing that determines your next salary is your current salary. You always want to be increasing your salary if you can. Obviously don’t do it if it puts a financial strain on you. But if it’s basically break even, get the higher salary job, and keep the job for 2 years. then jump to another job for even more.
Funny to see how corpos have brainwashed yous into stating your PTO in hours 😂😂
Sounds way more than a paltry 18 days or whatever
Yeah, I’d be pushing for more time off. I wouldn’t go backwards on that unless the new job is significantly less work.
When I was being recruited for a branch management position I told them I wouldn’t go from a shitty 3 weeks of vacation to 2 weeks that they had offered, it had to be the same or more. They came back with unlimited in writing. Since I knew the recruiter and he’d be my boss, having worked with him for years, I knew he’d approve whatever I asked off it was reasonable. All I really want is a week off a quarter. So far it’s been a great change.
Still more than the 10 days I imagine you get by stating it as 2 weeks though I guess
There a difference between PTO and days off. With PTO you can take just a few hours or even fractions of hours off, rather than having to take full days. PTO is also accrued for hours worked, often days off are rewarded at certain times is the year, either your anniversary date or first of the year
If you can’t take a fraction of an hour off without taking it out of your PTO, there’s something seriously, seriously wrong with your work culture
“Hey I’ve got to nip away twenty minutes early today, kid’s sick”
“Ok I’ll take it out of your PTO”
“YOU FUCKING WHAT MATE? Are you having a fuckin giraffe?”
That’s why companies went to that model, it prevents favoritism since some Managers and supervisors would penalize certain people for doing something like that. It keeps other people from taking advantage of that kind of situation and using it to dump their work onto everyone else.
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If you get paid hourly using the time is a choice to get your 40 hours. You aren’t forced; you just worked what you worked.
Only if the pay was so much higher that it offsets the cost of any benefits that would be coming out of pocket and I still have more money than I had at the previous job.
I mean, I’d be totally fine with just $2000 a month if the benefits included room and board. But I wouldn’t go for $3k/month if I lost the room and board.
More realistically, I wouldn’t give up 30k/year with medical for 40k/year without.
Do you have any wiggle room on negotiating the compensation?
I’d tell them that the career advancement opportunities and company seem compelling, but total compensation isn’t great given your household’s medical expenses and their insurance plan. I’d propose a bump in base pay and give them a number that you think would be reasonable.
Best advice here. An offer is just that, an offer. Not sure how negotiating benefits would work, never known that to be done, kinda written in stone at OP’s level. (Worked IT for a payroll firm, benefit exceptions just don’t happen, it’s a nightmare for several reasons.) But OP should ask for more pay to offset, that’s 100% doable.
For you young folk who may not have experience: What they say they’ll pay is the bottom. If you take it, good for them. Hit 'em higher, higher than you expect. If they’re truly interested, they’ll meet you in the middle.
I’m such a dumbass, HR was literally shaken giving me an offer ($70K), double what I had been making at my then current job. As in, worried I’d be offended. I played it off like, “That should work to start. Let’s see where it goes from there.” While my heart was slamming…
Fuck me. I should have aimed WAY higher! “That’s in the zone, but I understand my peers with the same experience can expect $85-90K.” Promise I would have scored $80K, easy. 4-years later and I just now topped that figure.
This is normal life, nothing to be stressed about. Ask for the damned money. It’s expected. No one’s handing $ out just because you’re a great person.
LOL, my new boss gets me laughing every week. We went from a cost center to dragging in a couple of million a year. Know why? He tells customers, and our management, and the CEO, to get fucking bent. “That’s not our company’s mission, nor is it my team’s job. If $customer wants it, $customer will sign a contract agreeing to pay $X. If you will not do this, you will expand my team. And here’s what that will cost…” The sales team is torqued off that us lowly techs are pulling more than them.
Last week I went to deploy a replacement server for free, standard stuff. Boss: “No. Do not send that. Let me talk to $customer’s account manager.” Now it’s $800 to $customer. And guess who will be arguing more money for the team (and me) next go round? Guess who gets to put, “Made company $X, and saved company $Y on the following initiatives…” Dolla dolla bill y’all.
tl;dr: Ask for the fucking money.
First lesson in business: Don’t mess with the fucking money.
Anecdotal experience alert: I work with a guy that is one of the leading sales operators in my field. I’ve been in another somewhat related field for 20+ years but didn’t really have to work on my sales techniques. This guy is a genius in simplicity. His basic tip is screw all the MBA metrics. When you’re dealing with people you need to make connections. Camp out and get to know them, their family, and their likes/hobbies. The craziest sales always have the same thing in common, not talking about whatever you’re selling. People buy when they like you. That builds trust and confidence. That’s it. Super simple but it’s why my small branch is carrying the entire state at the moment. Whenever my sales guys call the first question we ask is, that’s cool but what did you learn about the customer? They’re starting to get what we mean and learning things about people and their sales and 5 star reviews have skyrocketed.
Or even negotiate with the current employer. If they’re okay there, then ask for a raise.
Yeah, I’ve totally done that in the past. That said, I wouldn’t do that until you have an employment offer in hand for the other gig. That way you actually have leverage and can walk.
I don’t think asking for a raise means you have to leave if they say no.
Agreed. I’m just saying that they have the leverage. They can walk if they want.
It’s usually easier to get a raise if they need you more than you need them.
I’ve never seen negotiating with a current employer go well in anything resembling the long term.
If you’ve been there long enough, performance is good (better than expected) and haven’t had a raise, it is quite normal here. YMMV where you are though.
This likely varies by industry, but I always advise instead of focusing on what your current role is giving you, examine what your next rung up the ladder looks like.
So for your case you have two “next rung up the ladder” jobs. The one from the new employer, and a promotion at your current employer. Which one offers you the most benefit not just in pay, but total comp (which you’re looking), but also career training and career advancement? What does your path for advancement look like at your current job? What would the total comp be for THAT job? Thats what you should be comparing the new employer against.
Management has been screwing us by making us work a ton of overtime because production is ramping back up. I’m supposed to go back to a regular 40 hr week “soon.”
How long ago did they say “soon”? Since you have the new employer offer in hand, ask for a meeting with your boss (don’t mention your new offer elsewhere) and ask the questions you want answers to:
- “I’ve heard ‘soon’ for X weeks/months. I’d like a more concrete answer to how long I should expect to keep working at this pace. What info can you give me boss?”
- “I’m interested in advancing. What objective measurable skills and/or milestones are you looking for that I need to hit to achieve a position for promotion?”
- “You’ve seen my performance for 5 months and how I’ve trained 3 new employees. What is the promotion path for this position, and with the many new bodies we’re hiring, how does that affect my path for advancement? I understand its not going to be tomorrow, but when does this company usually promote, and should I expect that same timeline for myself?”
This will tell you where you are at your current employer. Then compare that against the new employers offer.
I would also have more opportunities for advancement at this place and the work would be more engaging to me and likely more opportunities to improve my career as my current job is a major step back for me.
With this alone, it sounds like new employer is a better path. More money, more advancement, less forced overtime.
That sounds like a good move to me
You’re not going to like my answer, but it totally depends on the whole compensation package. You have to weigh each job and try to put a dollar value on those benefits. That includes monetary and non-monetary compensation, and components of the deal that are much more intangible such as advancement opportunities that might or might not materialize. It’s going to be highly situational.
For example, I had already made the decision to leave my current employer when I was offered a promotion. I could have accepted the raise and stayed, however, I decided to continue with my plans to resign and move on to a different job because I had already tipped my hand which puts me the employee at a disadvantage when performance reviews or budget cuts come around. I would be first on the chopping block and perceived as less committed to my organization.
My only advice is to be careful that you only consider the immediate benefits and value. More opportunities for future advancement is not a guarantee of advancement. You can always roll a boss who just doesn’t like you, and suddenly the job is a lot less appealing, so you have to value opportunities very conservatively compared to knowns like PTO.
So they are across the street from each other right? Do people from the other company end up at the same lunch places? Maybe ask somebody who works there what it is really like. Either way, never stop looking. More money is more money, especially at that end of the pay scale.
My last job was my favorite job I’ve ever had. Great boss, good pay, paid winters off, leading crews, lots of people I liked. But the hours sucked the rest of the year, and it was fucking hard work.
My new job is union, pay isn’t as good, but the benefits (health/retirement) are fantastic. Also, it’s a 37.5 hour work week. I don’t have paid winters off, but I have plenty of PTO, sick, and I can accrue comp time. No more overnights, and the work is a lot less physical.
If I were you, I’d take whatever job offer you get and try and leverage it for a raise and ask for the opportunity to move up. With all the training you said you’ve been doing, it’s obvious they know you know what you are doing. They may want to keep you around.
Because I live in a country with sane laws about minimum wages, minimum paid leave, and a functioning healthcare system
Current or offered pay is a strong bargaining chip for negotiations.
I’d apply to the higher paying one - if you get an offer, check in with current job to see if they’ll counter. If not take the higher paying job.
Then immediately start applying to similar jobs with better benefits, and negotiate pay up what you’re making.
Also if they’re not jobs you -really- care about, exaggerate your current pay when asking for a match. Photoshop pay stubs if you need to. If they catch you in a lie, oh well, try again with another until it works.
And if you get a job that matched an inflated salary, once you have three pay stubs from it, start applying to other places and have them match the new pay. Now there’s no risk of them ‘finding out’ and firing you.
DO NOT do this for any state or federal positions, as that can land you in jail.
Anywho, employers aren’t your friend. They’ll fuck you as hard and as often as you let them, so don’t be afraid to play dirty, cuz they already are.
Loyalty to a company and relying on the quality of your work for deserved raises will literally ruin your life.
I would do the math. I have purchased insurance on my own for my family and it was ~$1500/month. Does the better paying job exceed that? If so then I would take the better paying job.
I couldn’t. I have a chronic disease, I absolutely need a job to be able to work with me on that. For example I’ve had a bad flare up for 2 months and it’s been so bad I haven’t been able to eat or maintain basic hygiene plus I haven’t been able to leave the house. I’m now in hospital for help with it and I could be here a while. No amount of money will compensate for those needs I have.
Yes, because I use my wife’s benefits regardless.
