- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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Things could be different but they’re not
Hillary would have done the same thing as Biden on Israel
Democrats have failed to fix all the insane crap Regean did because the DNC learned about how much money they were missing out on
I still maintain Bernie should run independent. The DNC ensures he will never win the primary, and it was proven by the email leak back in 2016 which is why no one voted for Hillary.
In a first-past-the-post system, an independent only ends up stealing votes from the mainstream candidate that’s closest to their position. He’d undermine the Democratic candidate, making a Republican win more likely. He’s smart enough not to want to do that.
Maybe we could find a 50 yo with Bernie’s values and he could be on their cabinet. Idgaf about vibes, but maybe we could put someone in that’s not on deaths door?
We’re still doing ‘I don’t like his vibes’.
Are we talking about Hillary the Drone strike Julian Assange, Clinton here? “Genocide Joe” is absolutely fucking nothing compared to her.
Holy fuck, didn’t know 😶
I didn’t like her purchase and manipulation of the Democrat party, and abrogating the democratic process in denying the people their choice of Bernie Sanders.
But hey, let’s not quibble about words.
Yeah, from my perspective, it failed long before that. The Democrats couldn’t achieve their true objective if they had allowed Bernie to be elected, which was to give the illusion of a better option while ensuring that the status quo isn’t affected where it relates to power and wealth.
Bernie was blocked for the same reason Biden isn’t trying to block Israel from destroying Palestine.
And now we have a convicted felon poised to be dictator.
Such a wide open door to walk through, and our broken incestuous Democrat party couldn’t get their shit together to run a candidate who can talk.
DON’T BLAME THE VOTERS.
Well, those voters shouldn’t have been such fucking short sighted morons then.
Voters? How about the Democratic party? You’re telling me there isn’t a compelling candidate in the entire fucking United States of America?
There aren’t any that corporations can get behind.
The democrats don’t care, as long as they don’t offend their base. And then doing any sort of legit challenge/change/effort, would offend that base.
The average democratic voter is incredibly complacent and happy with the status quo in this country.
They don’t really care too much about their base. It’s really their donors and themselves that they care about. The donors and the important people in the democratic party are very rich, so a Trump dictatorship would merely be an inconvenience and embarrassment to them. If it really got bad they’d move to another country and try to gain support as the legitimate government in exile.
I mean yeah that’s true but it’s not like Trump is gonna be pro-palestine.
If anything he is gonna be even more pro-israel because it’s a white supremacist colony.
I’m actually surprised we haven’t heard Trump talking about nuking Gaza yet.
it’s not like Trump is gonna be pro-palestine
Trump loves Netanyahu for doing in Israel what he wants to do in the US.
Biden loves Israel because he’s bought all the Only Liberal Democracy In The Middle East propaganda they’ve been spewing for decades.
But if you’re a college student getting your head cracked by a SWAT team storming the Columbia campus, Biden is the one asking for your vote. Trump is asking for the SWAT guy’s vote.
And that’s why Trump is going to win. The SWAT guy is going to turn out for Trump while the protester spends the day in the ER.
If from 2 choices 1 means the death of democracy, the democracy is already dead. That was already true back then. I hate this post because I completly bushes over that fact and is only there to guilt trip people who want real change outside the 2 party system.
It’s more like it’s in a coma right now. It’s not responding to stimulus, but there are signs of life. Theoretically if democrats win decisively, the Republican party could be forced to move to the center to become electable again.
But, if the Republicans win, it could be the end of democracy in the US. The Republicans know the odds of their winning another free and fair election are near zero, so their best bet to stay in power is to make sure they don’t have to face any more free and fair elections.
Despite all the chaos, despite the Republicans attempting to kill the democratic process, the Biden administration has actually managed quite a few meaningful and positive things. He’s not a very inspiring option as “leader of the free world”, but as someone who sits at the head of the table and delegates things out, his record is pretty good. But, it’s pretty damning that the system has Americans choosing between a criminal fascist, and an old man who probably won’t last 4 years.
Vote D, and also do your v-for-vendetta shenanigans. No reason not to do both if you’re all in.
“Keep quiet or Ill turn this democracy around, so help me God!”
So… People tell me an election year is no time to talk about electoral reform. Every US election year. But! After the election, they scurry away under the refrigerator and stay there for 4 years. I know you have to hold your nose while you vote this time, but catch these weird centrists before they disappear and hold their feet to the fire to influence change. You deserve better than this “I’m not voting for _, I’m voting against _” nonsense. Your government is hurting all of us. Stop it, please.
Who has told you not to talk about electoral reform in an election year? I’ve never heard that.
On top of that, there are plenty of people who are working to change our election system the whole time. The problem is the “I hate the two party system!” People by and large just vote every few years. I work with some locally that are trying to change things from the ground up.
Ugh, Facebook people, mostly. And thank you for being the change you want to see in the world.
No, no, I was assured Hillary Clinton was Basically The Same as Trump and Both Sides Were Bad.
The DNC signed it’s death warrant with that one. Bernie got screwed. We got Trump. The Supreme Court just handed Trump ultimate supreme dictator status. We all know Biden doesn’t have the balls to do anything about it and he certainly isn’t going to win the election.
As long as the R’s can get 40 seats in the Senate this fall the great experiment finally fails.
One thing you got wrong is that Bernie got screwed. He got demolished by Clinton, by 12% points and millions of votes. It wasn’t even close. Democrats wanted Clinton, and the major complaints about the DNC during the primary was that they said nasty things about him in an email and gave her some debate questions. That’s it. It made no difference in the outcome.
Am I the only one that remember wieserman-sholtz getting successfully sued over that? I swear this country has the memory of an 81 year old president.
Nah, this dude is just lying their asses off for some reason. I get voting for the lesser of two evils, I mean I voted for Clinton as well. But, apparently there are still ride or die Clinton heads out here still sucking down the copium.
What are you referring to, exactly?
Only after the rest of the moderate candidates were convinced to drop out before the debate and voting… Sanders would have likely won the primaries if there were more moderates on the ticket to split the vote.
So you’re saying because the winner was someone more representative of who the average Democrat voted, sanders got screwed.
No, I’m saying that the DNC has the responsibility to remain impartial, and when it doesn’t, it’s not surprising that the candidate they decide deserves to be president loses.
They didn’t decide. The people voted for Clinton and then Biden, overwhelmingly. Because that’s the type of candidate they believe they want. Remember, sanders didnt drop out, he lost. Overwhelmingly so.
Because that’s the type of candidate they believe they want.
Guessing you’ve never heard of the term “manufacturing consent”?
Are you pretending that’s been your argument up to this point?
Btw, why didn’t you point out that both of them backtracked the comments?
The DNC signed it’s death warrant with that one.
Bernie refused to join the DNC. He was doing his usual pump&dump dirty pool of winning a Primary and refusing the nomination so that the Democrats wouldn’t be able to run anyone in the general.
Bernie got screwed
…because he couldn’t get as many votes. None of that superdelegate bullshit people are talking about came to pass. He just wasn’t popular enough among a party he refused to be a member of. Go figure.
What new decision did SCOTUS make?
Absolute immunity for all official acts by a president, whether technically within their power or not. It’s now possible Trump cannot be held accountable for his attempted coup because he did it as the sitting president - because SCOTUS implied it’s Constitutional for him to attempt to overthrow the government.
Uhhh and today the SCOTUS decided that Trump can never be prosecuted for anything he did or will do whilst president, so actually, democracy died today. Biden won’t abuse this. Trump will, and there will be nothing to stop him from enacting his dictator plans. About that, and the political assassinations, and the president for life, I think Trump is serious.
Bad take.
You get genocide either way; one is a guy trying to stop the genocide that’s been negotiating behind the scenes for months (and yes, also giving the Israelis arms), and the other guy wants to accelerate the genocide while also ending democracy.
one is a guy trying to stop the genocide that’s been negotiating behind the scenes for months
I don’t believe you. Or more accurately, I don’t believe the alleged “leaks” from the White House about how mad Joe Biden is but it’s behind closed doors just trust me bro. This guy has been hard in the pocket for Israel his entire career, why wouldn’t he be now?
Mostly because Netanyahu has been souring on Biden real fast. Biden held up a delivery of bombs to Israel back in May, citing Israel’s plans to bomb Rafah. Netanyahu announced he was pushing forward anyway, and there was a big public spat about it. That sort of thing has been happening since Oct 7.
I mean one could say it’s all an act or something, but that strains credulity to me.
I’m not saying Biden is doing great here, I’d much prefer he take Bernie Sanders’ advice on this and stop weapon deliveries altogether. But it’s certainly fair to assess that Biden wants the genocide to stop, but is not doing enough to stop it.
Which is a de facto admission he knows Israel is committing war crimes with the weapons and that he has the power to stop military aid at any time.
This is Student Loans all over again where his cult says he can’t do it, because he doesn’t have that power. And then he does it.
Edit to add, he also released those bombs to Israel something like last week?
Which is a de facto admission he knows Israel is committing war crimes with the weapons and that he has the power to stop military aid at any time.
So your take is what. If we don’t start bombing Israel ourselves we’re supporting genocide? It’s a real moving goalpost, almost as if no action by any president would be enough. Almost like this originated from the Trump camp like all the other misinformation.
Nothing disgusts me more than seeing how Americans find some excuse to HATE every Democrat LOVE every Republican, even over issues where the latter is lightyears worse than the former.
I’m sorry, how do you come to the conclusion that I want to bomb Gaza at all? Not everything is a partisan operation. War crimes are bad, full stop.
In 2020 the left was told to vote for Biden and pressure him. Now that he’s signed the most conservative immigration policy since Operation Wetback, and is supplying a genocide, suddenly it’s all, “jk we never meant for you to actually pressure him!”
You did it again. Dodging the question. Again. You KNOW there’s no clean answer to the Israel situation. You’re blaming Biden for walking a highwire nobody would have walked better. And you seem to know it because you won’t address the question head-on.
…and then you change topic.
So at this point, you concede that Biden is as pro-Palestine as is reasonably possible? Or are you just going to keep spreading the Russian propaganda?
I answered your grade school attempt to box me in with an assumed premise. And better would be to at the very least, condition military aid on the effective distribution of food aid to Gazans.
It’s not the leaks, it’s the fact that Anthony Blinken has been holding talks in Cairo to try and negotiate a peace settlement.
Bad take.
It’s a return2ozma post. Of course it’s a bad take.
It’s not a bad take. The post didn’t imply that there was a no-Genocide option
You read the word OR in there?
Did it say AND ? NO. It said OR.
The post absofuckinglutely strongly implied there was a no-genocide option.
No it didn’t. That’s just the way you read it.
Or. Just maybe. We could actually care enough to pressure Biden.
No? Just going to shove your head in the ground and pretend politics is an immutable object?
I can’t imagine why Biden was already in so much polling trouble. It can’t possibly be the cult like atmosphere around him preventing him from contacting reality.
…And exactly, EXACTLY, how do you pressure him in a way that doesn’t actively risk making things far, far worse, not just in Israel, but here in the US as well? Because if your answer is, “don’t vote for him”, well, congrats, you’re going to make things worse.
You let them know. You don’t just sit on it. The one thing that will move a politician is knowing they can’t get elected again if they keep doing something. By throwing “But Trump!” at us, no matter how obliquely, you’re just protecting a genocide.
Are you not reading anything you just wrote?
one thing that will move a politician is knowing they can’t get elected again
If you do that with Biden, that means that Trump gets elected, and shit gets a whole helluva lot worse. Not just in Palestine, but everywhere. Of course, you’re going to say that I’m "throwing ‘But Trump!’ at you, but that’s not me - that’s the system that we live in.
You have a functionally binary choice. You can try to minimize damage, or not.
It’s your choice whether you, personally, do what you are capable of doing to minimize damage. And I hope that you have the intestinal fortitude to tell your LGBTQ+ friends to their face what you did, and why you did it, if it all goes the way I expect it will.
It Is Not a binary choice. First of all, Biden can still change course. Second Biden can be replaced. It is not a choice between Trump and blindly supporting whatever warm body is in opposition to him.
Functionally binary.
Bullshit.
Yes, he’ll learn a lot by not being in office anymore. Then someone else will have the power to aid Isreal explicitly to carry out a genocide. But Biden will know. He’ll never hold office again , but hay. He’ll know. As the Supreme Court sactions the legalism of a Trump dictatorship and approve a continuation of the Japanese Internment Act. Expanded to all the other not-white people. Just as they argued during his first term, but Biden will know. Biden will have learned his lesson. While he has no political power of any kind. And when they’re shoving people in trucks and on boats without sufficient supplies to be dummped into places they aren’t from and have no resources to survive, and Biden will be sitting at home having fully learned his lesson.
It Is Not a binary choice. First of all, Biden can still change course. Second Biden can be replaced. It is not a choice between Trump and blindly supporting whatever warm body is in opposition to him.
Ah yes. The insular Biden cult. I don’t know how deluded you need to be to buy this. No one, Not one person is in a cult of personality for Unkie Joe. No one. Why do you think this?
Says one of two people that have showed up to frame this as an either/or problem we can’t possibly even try to tackle. It’s either commit genocide or lose our democracy. No possible other option, especially after a disastrous debate that confirmed fears of age related mental decline.
The president isn’t actually running the entire county himself, Biden’s government isn’t fundamentally different from Obama’s, Trump also, very obviously from his first term, didn’t have much involvement at all in his government. The appointments, the policies his government focus on is a very big deal. Which 80 year old napping from 12pm to 5pm and going to bed, is not the difference that matters.
The president isn’t actually running the entire county himself, Biden’s government isn’t fundamentally different from Obama’s, Trump also, very obviously from his first term, didn’t have much involvement at all in his government. The appointments, the policies his government focus on is a very big deal. Which 80 year old napping from 12pm to 5pm and going to bed, is not the difference that matters.
So let’s just get rid of the position then? Hey all those fortune 500 companies don’t need CEOs either right? This is not the argument you seek.
Although I noticed you edited your comment to make my last reply look out of context.Edit - haha I confused the two places they replied to me. The rest is relevant though.
Israel controls one of the largest political lobbies in America. No president who goes against the interests of the Israeli government will ever be elected until this changes.
AIPAC has only won one house race this year, and that was an already vulnerable incumbent. They’re nothing like titans like the NRA.
It’s difficult to defend the idea that Biden has been trying to end the genocide. He’s had that power from day 1. If you give Israel a bullet, you have solid awareness that there is a good chance it will be used against a non-combatant. That’s hard reality. If Biden was not supportive of genocide he would place an embargo on the weapons being poured into the massacre. He also wouldn’t sanction the ICC when they attempted to call out the primary actors in the genocide. He has given enabling support to the campaign in multiple ways.
Biden is not a good man as he is portrayed, he is complex obviously, but the reality is that Hitler still petted his dog and was nice to his friends and family. Biden should be joining Netanyahu at the Hague, not sabotaging democracy by being virtually un-electable while at the same time working to make it even more obvious that the international order is only there to punish certain war criminals.
Anyway, I think the take is pretty on point.
He’s had that power from day 1
Not as such, no. When congress appropriates funds, the president is legally obligated to disburse those funds for the purpose that they were appropriated for. This is a law, and it’s not something that’s up for debate. That was part of the underlying crime that Trump was first impeached for; he attempted to withhold funds corruptly. Could he have vetoed that? Sure. It also would have vetoed funding for Ukraine though. (And, just pointing out here that Trump would have vetoed assistance for Ukraine, while helping Israel kill more Palestinians faster.)
You can–and should–condemn his rhetoric, because he has been supportive of Israel waging war in Gaza. But he’s also been working behind the scenes, trying to negotiate a peace that Hamas will accept, and that Israel will accept. Even when he’s supporting Israel in public, it’s been clear that he’s been working to negotiate a truce.
This is a law
The US also has laws against providing arms to military units that have been credibly accused of war crimes, but in Israel (also Ukraine) they simply don’t investigate allegations in order to keep the arms flowing. If Biden wants a legal casus belli to deny Israel arms, he has many to choose from, but he is actively choosing not to employ them.
He would need some kind of finding of fact in the US to support that, and that hasn’t happened AFAIK yet. The ICC has made that finding, but it wouldn’t be legally supportable to use that finding to withhold appropriated funding.
You mean like our intelligence agencies finding Israel’s claims to be “low confidence”
The literal second he tells the CIA to hand him the unedited file it’s over.
Yeah the US isn’t even a member of the ICC.
In fact the US is so NOT a member of the ICC that it’s currently federal law that if a US soldier was being held at the Hague, the US military would be obligated to invade The Netherlands in order to recover them
“What part of rules for thee but not for me don’t you get?”
The Leahy Law and Foreign Assistance Act make sending that aid illegal, no matter how much Congress appropriates.
Leahy Law and Foreign Assistance Act
Read up on that. There would need to be a finding of fact by the relevant US embassy and departments within the gov’t before this comes into play. Without that, that act is irrelevant to Biden attempting to withhold aid.
Could Biden direct the ambassador and relevant department heads to investigate so that he could legally withhold aid? Yes, he could. Should he? Also yes. But it’s not something the president can do unilaterally. Despite SCOTUS’ attempt to make it so, the president was never intended to be the sole sovereign of the country.
Oh? Then what authority did he have to withhold the plane bombs?
This is student loans all over again. You guys are going to shout that he can’t do that right up until he does it.
The Leahy Law in text -
No assistance shall be furnished under this Act or the Arms Export Control Act to any unit of the security forces of a foreign country if the Secretary of State has credible information that such unit has committed a gross violation of human rights.
All he has to do is open a fucking newspaper. You’d have us believe he is deaf, dumb, and blind.
Didn’t we have a whole impeachment about a president preventing arms that were allocated by Congress from going to their destination? Oh yeah that was Trump trying to get some election fuckery from Ukraine. Granted, the election aspect was another level on it but that is functionally the same thing you’re demanding Biden do which was already determined to not be ok. President doesn’t have that power so maybe instead of wondering why Biden isn’t fixing the thing all on his own, we can start (or continue if you were ever paying attention between presidential elections) pressuring and replacing the Congress critters that are actually approving the sale of arms to continue the genocide. Why does everyone keep getting big man deluded when we know for a fact that the president isn’t a king with total control?
I think the wheel of history turns on a greater axle than a presidential election. Look at Europe, and the rest of the global north. The machine of neoliberal imperialism has created global instability and climate crisis, and the rich are locking down their spoils with right wing nationalism.
Trump was a fluke, he’d have had more bites at the apple in 2020/2024 and eventually get a win. If not him, then some evangelical fascist.
Absolutely. We’re seeing a return of authoritarian candidates in many first world nations. The people that witnessed Hitler’s rise are mostly gone, leaving many to overlook or minimize similar patterns of behavior.
As far as the US is concerned, Trump made the hat. Someone else will put it on.
The dominance of the far-right in France’s elections and in European elections in general this cycle is really frightening. That being said, I think a lot of their success comes from tactics inspired by Trump’s… Trump became an internet icon, he was turned into a piece of popular culture. The European far-right are doing the same, they’re REALLY good at social media propoganda and utilising social media to get young people to vote for them. Looking at 2019 vs 2024, the difference in young voters’ attitudes would be unbelievable then.
Russian psyops. They’re beaten The West without firing a shot, except for Ukraine and Syria.
Ha! If you think fascism in Europe is going to end well for Russia, you don’t remember history.
Russia itself is already fascist.
Doesn’t matter all that much. Fascism needs enemies, even within the same ideology.
The fascism on the rise right now isnt the same as in the 30s and russia right now isnt the same as in the 30s. I dont see any reason to believe that the european fascists would turn on their biggest supporter.
Yeah Russia will be in Neo-Hitler’s side this time. At least that seems to be their plan.
The machine of neoliberal imperialism has created global instability and climate crisis, and the rich are locking down their spoils with right wing nationalism.
I want this on my tombstone so the alien archeologists that eventually visit our ruined husk of a world can know what happened.
they’ll already know and the financiers of any such project will work to mitigate any impact that message might have or prevent it from becoming well know; as has already happened.
The American supreme courts massive and 180 turn from the previous decades of law is the textbook definition of tyranny. America used to have a grand tradition of what to do with tyrants.
America always had big propaganda against other people’s tyrants, never against their own.
And Truman would have something to say about all of the Russian-bought members of Congress. History is cyclical, and we’re approaching another authoritarian period for global powers.
I’m glad I’m not the only one seeing this happen all over the world. All over the world we have feckless neoliberal parties failing to represent their people and getting replaced with populist right-wingers.
All over the world
Showing your bias here, because really this is only happening in Europe and the Anglosphere.
Not just Europe and the anglosphere. It’s also happening in Latin America (ecuador), and that’s basically all the regions where democracy used to be prevalent.
The middle east is still as dictatorial as it always was. Asia is still as dictatorial as it always has. Africa is still as dictatorial as it always has. I know all of these regions are huge and diverse, and that there are democracies. But none of them I can think of has gained democracy.
So the places that had democracy are turning less democratic, and the places that had little democracy still have little democracy. I’d say that’s an “All over the world” thing.
At least there’s Lula in Brazil. And I’m sure someone could come and tell me something bad about him, but not being Bolsonaro is a huge improvement, and I’ve heard other good things. In fact I believe the majority of Latin America is under leaders to the left of the US Democrats. And no I’m not counting non democracies like Venezuela or Cuba.
Meanwhile Brazil went back to their last progressive president after Bolsonaro’s failure, and Bolivia has foiled two attempted coups by reactionary forces. Venezuela and Cuba also remain strong, with the latter being possibly the most democratic country on this planet.
In Africa, the most notable “democracies” that have been overthrown in recent memory were all client states of western countries whose previous governments cannot in good faith be said to have been representative of the people.
The Middle East is pretty bad, what with Israel going full fash in the past year. It’s not like they haven’t been edging for decades, though.
But in Asia, the only country that might be more democratic than Cuba is China, and they’re as strong as they’ve ever been. Since that’s 1/5th of the population of this planet living under one of its premier democratic governments, I’d say the prognosis for global democracy is fine.
So the most Democratic countries on this planet according to you are cuba and china. Both of them are 1-party states, and China is straight up a surveillance state. Ok lol.
Does china pay you or are you spreading their bullshit propaganda for free?
Cuba’s democracy is actually a 0-party state. Candidates stand on their own for election, and most politics are run through local orgs and workplaces. They recently concluded one of the most democratic exercises in the history of the Western Hemisphere, when through a series of local referendums they amended their constitution. No lobbyists, no special interests, no controlled media - an almost totally pure example of a government run by citizens, for citizens.
As for China, the Chinese people have something like 90%+ satisfaction with their central government, as measured by independent observers. The reason for this is their commitment to Full Process Democracy, which means that your democratic participation in the system doesn’t end with your vote for a representative - low and mid level officials are required to constantly be polling their constituencies, and they can be dismissed (either by a recall election or by higher ups) if they don’t act in accordance with the desires of the people they’re supposed to represent.
Furthermore, China’s ruling party may be one party on paper, but it is “one party” that is made up of over one hundred million members. It has internal factions that range from neoliberal to anarcho-communist, and it is very intentionally embedded into every single Chinese institution. Most of the service that the CPC provides to the people is provided at a local or even individual level - for example, a Chinese worker’s equivalent to a union leader is a coworker who’s with the party, where if you have problems with your boss you can get it resolved through them.
The US is effectively a one-party system as well, because the rest of the world gets fucked over either way you guys vote.
Because in a lot of other places, or was already the case.
Americans are fucking up their own country, Americans are the ones that collapsed the government in Russia, re-wrote their economy, pushed in Yeltzin then invested in all the criminals there. Americans created this entire problem, as they are the worldwide empire with trillions of dollars and an agenda. It is cope to think that Russia has anything to do with it, if anything its their chickens coming home to roost.
I’m not defending America’s actions. I’m stating that many members of US Congress are funded by Russian oligarchs.
The influence was apparent when Republicans withheld aid from Ukraine until they were forced to choose between funding Ukraine along with Israel, or leaving Israel without weapons.
Does that sound like a government body that is representing its constituents?
I think you misunderstand world politics, Russian oligarchs are funded by Americans and work for them in international crime.
How about you tell that to The Speaker Of The House?
https://www.newsweek.com/who-konstantin-nikolaev-money-mike-johnson-1870600
All the American government officials and leaderships are part of an international class of criminals who exist only to extract wealth from you and exploit your for your labor. Thank you for linking your state propaganda.
Bother someone else with your agenda.
OK, but sending weapons to either of these places is bad, both for the people whose wealth is being wasted to blow up people on the other side of the world, mostly civilians (almost entirely civilians in Israel’s case) and the people getting blown up
Supplying Ukraine with the weapons needed to defend themselves against a Russian invasion is bad?!?
The US is not supplying Ukraine with weapons because they have any interest in the well-being of the people in Ukraine. They are supplying the weapons to extend a war as long as possible to weaken Russia, at the expense of hundreds of thousands of dead and wounded Ukrainians and millions displaced.
This is infinitely worse for the people living there than if Russia won a quick victory or if we’d taken literally any off-ramp in the last decade.
Fucking what?
It doesn’t matter what the US supplies Ukraine. It’s Ukraines fight. It’s up to Ukraine to decide to forfeit the fight or to keep fighting.
By your logic we (humanity) should just let any country invade any other country and take over it’s people just because “it’s easier to give in than fight.” Giving in would be for the benefit of the people, right? That’s what you’re saying? Fuck right off.
Russia should not have invaded Ukraine in the first place.
If you haven’t yet, I recommend watching Traumazone. All 7 hours of it offers a beautiful insight in USSR 1980’s to 1999.
Yes, USA supported shitty stuff. But the system rotted itself out first with corruption and production mismatching demand while fighting pointless war in Afghanistan, which created the power vacuum and collapse.
The USSR failed because US caught them in a cold war specifically to bankrupt them. The Soviet Union fell not because of rot and mismanagement at the end but because they were attacked from the outside every second of its existence since 1917 for daring to stand up against business. This same external pressure is not true for the US. Russia wasn’t and isn’t attacking the US now. If anything “the Russians” work for certain Americans and not the other way around.
The west sure did buy a FUCKTON of oil from the Soviet Union for people who were apparently trying to bankrupt them since 1917
Oh, but the West only gave the money in order to bankrupt the Soviets, you see
Bro this isn’t some conspiracy, it is the Kissinger Doctrine
a grand tradition of what to do with tyrants.
America as a nation was created by a subset of landed gentry who didn’t like paying taxes. They wanted to make Washington king. The founding fathers were basically the Megamind meme where Tighten (yes, it’s spelled Tighten, not “Titan”) says to the Mayor of the city: “More like under new management.”
The founders were not a monolith and had mega-disagreements about how to proceed from day 1.
“okay, we’re not gonna have political parties, right guys?”
Immediately form federalist and anti-federalist factions
Sure, and they still managed to pass the alien and sedition acts. Saying they weren’t a monolith is a way of dismissing the mountain of evidence that suggests that, for most of them, participation in the democratic process of an inchoate American republic was intended only for a small segment of the population - literate (i.e. wealthy) white men. I’d suggest A People’s History of the United States if you want a better perspective on that.
Yes, his name was Andrew Jackson, and he told the Supreme Court to go fuck itself, and we survived him too. This stuff changes and evolves.
America used to have a grand tradition of what to do with tyrants.
Which is the same playbook as democratically elected leaders of foreign nations. Bombs, drones and CIA-soonsored assassinations
